Welcome to Thee Quaker Podcast, Season 3

Download the transcript.

Jon Watts  00:00

Hi friends. I’m Jon Watts

Zack Jackson  00:01

and I’m Zack Jackson.

Jon Watts  00:03

Zack, should we do some brief introductions here?

Zack Jackson  00:06

I think that’s a good idea.

Jon Watts  00:07

Okay, I’ll start. I’m a lifelong Quaker, and I’ve been making Quaker content online since the early aughts. I’m the founder of Thee Quaker Project, which includes this podcast. I’m a member of Central Philadelphia Monthly Meeting, and I’m also a musician, so all the music you hear on this show was made in my studio.

Zack Jackson  00:31

And I am the podcast producer of Thee Quaker Podcast, and myself not a Quaker, I am actually a part of the United Church of Christ, where my wife and I are co pastors of a very small church plant just outside of Philadelphia, and it has been a such a fun adventure to just get thrown into this Quaker world, to sort of go from understanding 1% of the history of Quakerism to suddenly finding this giant and vibrant and exciting community. So now I get to tell these stories. I get to tell these stories, and I am so excited for season three, because it is just filled to overflowing with these incredible stories of spiritual courage.

Jon Watts  01:14

Yeah, we’re so we’re only two weeks away from season three of the podcast. Very exciting. Zack, how are you feeling?

Zack Jackson  01:24

I’m getting flashbacks to when I was a kid, and I would be at the front seat of a roller coaster, and I’d be right at the top of the roller coaster, and suddenly it stops. You know, as kind of the cart goes behind you, and you look around and you just see everything is suddenly still and quiet. But you know, in like a half a second, you’re about to plummet down to the earth. Like that. I think

Jon Watts  01:49

I’m getting like, visceral flashbacks of, like the clacking sound of the chain bringing the cart up to up the hill. Well, you know, while we have this, this brief moment to take a breath and reflect on where we’ve been and where we’re about to go. I wonder if we should reintroduce the podcast for folks who are new to it.

Zack Jackson  02:10

Yeah, for example, why is it called THEE Quaker podcast? I’ve had to spell it to all of my non Quaker friends and family members. It’s T, H E, E, that’s why you can’t find it. It’s T, H, E, E, Quaker. Why thee? Why Thee Quaker?

Jon Watts  02:26

Well, it’s a play on words, of course. Thee Quaker podcast, thee with 2 E’s in it, and both of these words, thee and Quaker each have a lot of significance and history for Friends. So if you’ll bear with me for just a moment. You know, the word thee in the time of early Friends, was used, kind of as a rebellion. Socio-economic disparity was built into the language of 17th Century England. So when you were addressing someone above your station, you were supposed to call them “you” and everyone else you called “thee”. And now so Quakers called everybody thee. And now it was a rebellion against the sort of socio-economic disparity, and it got us thrown in jail every so often. Over the years, it has become, you know, fine to call people thee, and now, and even a little weird. So now we, some Quakers, still use it as a kind of a term of endearment, something you might use with like close loved ones.

Zack Jackson  03:31

I love the fact that Quakers got thrown into jail for pronoun usage. That’s perfect. That is perfect. I I’m, like I said, still pretty new to Quakerism, but I have so appreciated how y’all just seem to be able to find these small but profound acts of rebellion, like I have so many examples from season three, but I’m getting ahead of myself. You mentioned that Quaker itself also has a lot of meaning to you. Where does that come from?

Jon Watts  04:02

Yeah, the name Quaker was originally given to us by our critics. So that’s not our chosen name. It was an insult meant to discredit, uh, early Friends. It was like calling us religious fanatics or something. But you know, like, like other communities that have come to own the pejorative terms thrown at them, we eventually started using it to describe ourselves. Like, yeah, when we listen deeply enough, we hear something powerful and feel physically moved by it. You know, maybe you should try it. So. So these two words, thee and Quaker, are essential for us. They’re in the title, of course, but they also guide how we approach the show. Like when I’m interviewing someone, I think of them as thee, and I try to bring out the Quaker in them. So my approach is kind of like, what, what can thou say thee Quaker so that’s, that’s the name TheeQuaker podcast. And if you’re ever telling somebody how to find it on Google, just tell them to Google. Quaker podcast, we’re at the top.

Zack Jackson  05:06

One of the first jobs that I was given when I started here was to binge listen to the first two seasons of the podcast. And I just have to say that you and Georgia did such an incredible job. It was just really, really well done, and all the accolades from the first two seasons are well deserved for those maybe who haven’t listened to those first two seasons and now want to take the chance to binge listen to them in the two weeks before Season Three launches. What do they have to look forward to?

Jon Watts  05:36

Yeah, well, you know, if you’re just now discovering the show. First of all, welcome Friend. There’s a lot of great storytelling to listen back to. And you know, as you mentioned, we’re just getting started. So, so the most important thing is you go to Quakerpodcast.com and hit subscribe. You’ll also find our archive there, including our recent mini season about Quaker stories that are relevant to the current moment, and you’ll find our 10 most popular episodes there in a list. You know, broadly speaking, season one was about the origins of the Quaker movement. Our lead story that season was James Nayler, who was one of the most infamous and tragic stories that came out of the early Quakers. Season two focused on Quakers in the civil rights movement and centered around the story of Bayard Rustin. He was the Quaker who was Martin Luther King’s right hand man for the March on Washington. So lots in the catalog to explore, but that about brings us up to the present moment and what we’re about to embark on, which is season three.

Zack Jackson  06:55

Yeah, so while we were doing research for season two and a half the kind of mini season we did in June about the pressing issues that are around us and how Quakers are responding to them, I kept coming up against this phrase, “Quaker prophetic witness”, and I kept finding these stories of Quakers, both historic and now, who are so inspired by their faith and by their convictions that they can’t help but take action, and not just any action, but action designed to shake people awake. And I just was so compelled by these stories that we decided to make a whole season that centered around them.

Jon Watts  07:37

Right? These are three more really rich words, Quaker, prophetic, witness. So of course, prophetic is imagining the world as it could be, and witnessing is going out into the world and telling people about it. It’s not enough to know that the kingdom of heaven is around the corner or that heaven on earth is possible. Friends for nearly 400 years, have felt the need to tell people around them to take dramatic action, as you said, to shock the world into paying attention

Zack Jackson  08:11

Exactly. And we wanted to get to the heart of what drives a person to do that. Daniel Hunter put it as a question that I just keep coming back to

Daniel Hunter  08:21

and there’s a spiritual thing that has to happen, where you think to yourself, What can we do? You read a little bit, you meet with people, you study non violence strategy, you but at some point you just have to make a risk of something,

Jon Watts  08:37

right? So what is worth risking everything for? That question led us to some of the most radical figures in Quaker history, and there is no one more radical than the fearless Benjamin Lay. Benjamin was a man who fought tirelessly against slavery at a time when even Quakers owned enslaved people.

Zack Jackson  09:01

Oh, man, he is an incredible figure, and as I learned about him, I just along with everyone else who learns about him these days, because he is having a bit of a moment. We can’t believe that history basically forgot about him, or perhaps he was intentionally erased. More on that in a few episodes. So to really understand him. We talked to the man who’s made it his life’s mission to make sure that we never forget him again. Marcus Rediker.

Marcus Rediker  09:26

He was an extremely important figure. He was a better exemplar of the best of American ideals in terms of equality and democracy. And that’s certainly much better than the so called founding fathers, or many of them, anyway. But he was not a saint. He was a really difficult man. He was like all knees and elbows and edges and, you know, at any time, drop of a hat, he’s ready to fight. He was an impossible, impossible man, you know, but he felt he had to be all on fire in this way or nothing was ever going to happen. 

Jon Watts  10:42

So we need this kind of history so that we can recognize its parallels today.

Zack Jackson  10:48

Yeah, yeah. We saw it. We saw it firsthand when we joined a group of Quakers who were walking from New York City to Washington, DC to protest immigration policy, like it was an act of protest, but it was so much more.

Ross Brubeck  11:03

It is. It is the fact that Quakers, in itself, as you know, as many Quakers obviously know, that it’s has its in its DNA, anti authoritarian energy, energy that hasn’t been lost over the 400 years, 400 plus years that it’s existed inside, the inside of the borders of the place that we call the United States. And so it’s the fact that we’re definitely, certainly embodying some of that.

Max Goodman  11:39

I think our hopes for, for Quakers is to have sort of a primitive revival. You know, early Quakers were very politically engaged. Were big dissidents, were going to jail all the time for their beliefs, and they had a certain fire and urgency that I would call a gospel urgency. Right there they were moving like Jesus was coming back next week.

Jon Watts  12:16

So whether it’s a historic act or a modern one, it comes from that same fundamental desire to heal what’s broken in the world,

Zack Jackson 12:26

right? And it’s a spirit that doesn’t wait its turn. As artist Todd Drake told us in a line that has really resonated with me,

Todd Drake  12:33

I’ve come to tell people that you can be a Quaker pirate too. You just have to try to do good without asking permission.

Jon Watts  12:41

I want to let listeners know it’s not all fire and brimstone this season. Well, we’ll also have some fun, light hearted episodes, and we’ll take you inside some very unique Quaker meetings for worship and answer some of the most pressing questions that the internet has about us,

Zack Jackson  13:05

like, how do you do silent worship with noisy kids? Can anybody start a Quaker meeting? And why does everyone seem to think that Quakers are Amish?

Jon Watts  13:14

Season three begins August 12. So make sure you subscribe at Quakerpodcast.com to find out when new episodes are posted. Till then, even if you feel like screaming,

Erica Canela  13:26

You know, let’s get rid of the internet. Let’s get rid of television news, and let’s just go back to the printing press and sort of see who! Who has what it takes?!

Jon Watts  13:35

Know that our little corner of the internet is filled with stories of spiritual courage And there is plenty more to come. Stay tuned. 

Hosted, produced, mixed, and mastered by Zack Jackson.

Original music and sound design by Jon Watts (Listen to more of Jon’s music here.)

This season’s cover art is by Todd Drake

Supported by listeners like you (thank you!!)