Quakers in Ireland

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1. In a landscape historically divided between Catholic and Protestant, Quakers carved out an identity as a trusted “third thing” by offering a hand of peace to both sides. What does it look like to embody a “third way” in our own deeply polarized communities without retreating from the conversation? 
2. To help coastal communities rebuild, Quakers provided fishing nets but required a small payment specifically to preserve the fishermen’s dignity. What’s a modern equivalent of this? How do we cross the line between genuinely helping someone and accidentally stripping them of their agency?
3. Felicity McCartney reflects on growing up in an environment where she disagreed with many ideas, yet felt those ideas still “had a right to be there”. How do we cultivate an internal posture that allows us to coexist peacefully alongside beliefs we find difficult or incorrect and how do we know when its time to no longer be tolerant? 

Zack Jackson  

Hey friends, Zack here. We are officially in the final week of our May supporter drive!

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Help us reach the finish line. Please visit quakerpodcast.com and click the ‘Support’ button in the top right corner. Thank you for making this work possible, and now here is today’s episode.

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Jon Watts  

Hey Zack, welcome back. How was your trip to Ireland Yearly Meeting?

Zack Jackson  

It was incredible, you know. It’s, it was wild. I was there in a, in a foreign country, all alone, and within a few hours it really felt like I was among friends, and I pun absolutely intended. But seriously, Irish Quakers, they just embraced me, and they made me feel like I belonged.

Jon Watts  

Oh, that’s wonderful. Yeah, I’m familiar with that feeling. One amazing thing about being a Quaker is that you’ve suddenly got family all over the world. I experienced that in the first season of the podcast when I traveled to Australia, but I’ve never visited Quakers in Ireland. I’m so curious. What would you say makes Irish Quakers unique?

Zack Jackson  

You know, it’s funny, I asked that question to a group of lifelong Quakers at lunch one day, and one of them said, “I have no idea. This is all I’ve ever known, this small community on this little island, you have to ask an outsider.”

Jon Watts  

Okay, so, so did you find an outsider to ask?

Zack Jackson  

I did. I found outsiders, I found insiders, I found everyone in between. But before I get into Quakers in Ireland and what makes them unique, I need to give you just a little bit of history first,

Jon Watts  

All right. Let’s do it. Go for it.

Zack Jackson  

Okay. So, in order to understand Quakers in Ireland, you first need to understand that the Roman Empire never conquered the island.

Jon Watts  

Oh, you mean like history? Like, let’s way back machine here.

Zack Jackson  

Oh, yeah. Trust me, trust me, stick with me on this one. It’s important. So, unlike England, Rome never actually conquered Ireland. They didn’t come in and build their big walled cities or establish strict top-down power structures. So, when Christianity arrived in the fourth century, it didn’t take root in the centers of power. It blossomed in abbeys and in monasteries out in the countryside, and Irish spirituality was already deeply rooted in the land, and in this acknowledgement of the inherent sacredness of all things. So the early Christianity that took root there, they saw God in everything, and they saw God in everyone.

Jon Watts  

That sounds familiar. Quakers like to say that there is that of God in everyone, but I think the period you’re talking about is pre Quakerism.

Zack Jackson  

Yeah, so you can see, though, that 1200 years before Quakerism even existed, Irish Christians were kind of already drinking from that same stream of wisdom. Now I do have to say that over time the broader church did tighten its grip, but Irish Catholicism has always kept a little bit of that original rebellious streak.

Jon Watts  

Okay, got it. So, so what’s next? I’m guessing, let’s see, then the Reformation happens, right?

Zack Jackson  

The Protestant Reformation sweeps through all of Europe, but instead of coming via missionaries and teachers, the Reformation comes to Ireland through English conquest. So, on the island, Protestant Christianity didn’t just mean a different kind of theology, it meant English control, land confiscation, and all the complicated, painful baggage that comes with colonial rule.

Jon Watts  

Right, yeah. My, my ancestors were mixed up in there somewhere. So I’m curious, how Quakers fit into that whole sort of religious landscape?

Zack Jackson  

Throughout history. Quakers are this kind of incredible third thing in Ireland. They’re not the Church of Ireland, and they aren’t Catholic, but constantly standing somewhere in the middle, offering a hand of peace to both sides. The fight for Irish independence after World War One eventually left the mostly Protestant north and the mostly Catholic South on two sides of an international border, but it never separated the Irish Quakers, they operate as this united all island community. In fact, their role was so crucial that next week we’ll have a standalone episode just on Quaker peacemaking in Northern Ireland.

Jon Watts  

All right, can’t wait to hear that. But if that’s next week’s show, set us up. What are we hearing about today?

Zack Jackson  

So today we’re exploring both the past and the present of Irish Quakers. For a group that has always been such a tiny fraction of the population, their impact on the island has been enormous. Pretty much everybody I interviewed told me that Irish Quakers tend to punch above their weight, though they said it with a wink, because Quakers don’t generally punch anyone,

Jon Watts  

Right? Not notorious punchers, the Quakers.

Zack Jackson  

No, I wouldn’t say so. But after sitting with them, and talking with them, and driving around their cities, and getting dozens of hours of audio recordings, I just realized that they have so much to teach the rest of us about community, about peacemaking, and just about hope.

Jon Watts  

Awesome. Let’s, let’s get into it

Multiple Voices

Thee Quaker Podcast. Story. Spirit. Sound.

Zack Jackson  

As I stepped off the plane in Dublin, I was greeted in the way that most people are. With a cold rain and a strong breeze. But by the time my bus dropped me off in the city center, the sun was rising, the Earth was warming, and the Emerald Island began to hum with the sounds of people. And that feeling of kinship and welcome that I mentioned earlier? That wasn’t just Quakers. Before I could check in to Ireland Yearly Meeting, I spent a few hours seeing the sights, and everyone I met treated me like an old friend. Later that weekend, I sat down with Paul Mooney between sessions. He told me that this kind of radical welcome permeates the very island itself. 

Paul Mooney  

Before St. Patrick came, we had the Brehon Law, B R E H O N, and in the Brehon law there is a law called Fáilteachas, and it means hospitality, so everybody in the community was responsible for hospitality, so that’s why Ireland is Ireland of the welcomes, it’s been going on for 10,000 years.

Zack Jackson  

Hospitality might come naturally to the Irish people, but that doesn’t mean that peace has always been simple, especially as it relates to religion. For centuries, the lines between Catholics and Protestants haven’t just been about theology, they’ve been about land, colonialism, and deeply entrenched borders. When Quakers first arrived from England in the 1650s they stepped right into that powder keg, and as Will Haire, the recent clerk of Ireland Yearly Meeting, explained to me, their very arrival was tied to the violence of a colonizing army.

Will Haire  

Cromwell comes in with a really draconian campaign and wipes out the Irish forces and really displaces a lot of Irish people from the land. A lot of the country was fairly devastated, and it’s understood that first there were some Cromwellian soldiers, Quakers, who had come in in the army, who, but who then, you know, there was a lot of trauma from being in the army, and some of those people became Quaker and became pacifist, and gave up, refused to bear arms, and they were in Ireland, but some of their family people started Quakers, who were obviously being persecuted in England. Some of them came to Ireland as traders in business. So William Edmondson came at first, 1654 comes to Porter Down, which just here in the north, and he’s the first one there, and starts doing this process. 

Zack Jackson  

Because those Quakers laid down their arms and refused to participate in the state religion. They were instantly distinct from the English ruling class, but as English settlers, they were also outsiders to the native Irish Catholics. That unique status forced them to carve out an entirely different space in society.

Will Haire  

Clearly, we, in some ways, are in the Protestant tradition, but actually, Quakers – the identity of Quakers is seen as somewhat one-off. We’re slightly seen as a distinct group in a certain strange way trusted by both, maybe we could, you know, groups that are, that you know, are fair in that process,

Zack Jackson  

Being trusted by both sides is a rare currency in a divided land, but that trust wasn’t just handed to them, it was forged in the fire of a national tragedy. In 1847, a devastating potato blight ravaged the island. The poorest communities in the south and southwest were hit the hardest, as potatoes were one of the only crops that would grow in the wet and rocky soil there. Ultimately, over a million people died in the decade that followed, and while the rest of the world played politics and pointed fingers, the Irish Quakers just went to work.

Will Haire  

Quakers were heavily involved when there’s this disastrous famine, which we lost over a million people on the island, and the population, you know, rapidly declined. People migrated. Quakers were heavily involved in, in feeding everybody, and there was no question, they weren’t asking for anything, just they were just dealing with a problem.

Zack Jackson  

Other groups set up relief efforts too, but as Alan Brady pointed out, the Quaker soup kitchens operated with a very different kind of entry fee,

Alan Brady  

But at that time there were two kinds of soup kitchens, there were soup kitchens that would feed you if you were willing to convert to Anglicanism, and there were soup kitchens that would feed you, the Quaker soup kitchens that would feed you if you were hungry.

Zack Jackson  

But their work didn’t stop when the soup kitchens closed. As the worst of the famine passed, Quakers looked at what people actually needed to rebuild their lives. Will told me about the coastal communities where families had been forced to sell their fishing nets just to survive.

Will Haire  

At the early stage of famine, you sell anything you can sell, but as things were slightly improving, they hadn’t got any fishing nets, and the Quakers brought them the fishing nets back for these communities, so they could start fishing and supporting themselves. But interestingly, they made them pay a little for it, because it was slightly about dignity.

Zack Jackson  

It wasn’t just charity, it was a partnership based on fundamental respect.

Will Haire  

I mean, in fact, if I understand, in family relief worldwide now, that sort of concept of trying to, it’s about empowerment, really, actually, quick, the importance of empowering people and being a process, and the Quakers, even in 19, did see that, but it was about the empowerment of it and equality of everybody in that process.

Zack Jackson  

That kind of fundamental respect isn’t just a charitable blip in history, it builds the kind of trust that pays dividends across generations. Over a century after the famine, during the height of the violent sectarian conflict known as the Troubles, young Quakers were running a children’s camp in a dangerous Republican area of Belfast. Will Hare remembers what a local leader of the IRA said when asked if the Quakers were safe there,

Will Haire  

And he did say he means apparently he’s reported saying well they were fair to us in 1847 so they’re safe. I trust them,

Zack Jackson  

Integrity is a bridge that takes decades to build, and that commitment to radical equality, the idea that you don’t have to change who you are to be fed, to be helped, or to belong, didn’t just stay in the 19th century. It’s the beating heart of Irish Quakerism today. Freddie Higgins is an 18 year old Quaker from Dublin. They were raised Catholic, but as they got older, the church didn’t quite feel like a place where they could truly be themselves.

Freddie Higgins  

And then when I was 11, maybe I sort of began to realize that I was queer and that I was non-binary, and I felt that the sort of vibe from the Catholic Church was not great, and I, and the vibe from other Christians, from what I could see, was not great, and I felt like I was sort of not even like devoid of God’s love, but sort of devoid of ever finding acceptance in a spiritual place, and so I just stopped

Zack Jackson  

For a few years. Freddie drifted away from faith entirely until at 14 years old they stumbled across a YouTube video about a young disabled woman who went to a Quaker meeting,

Freddie Higgins  

And I was like, that’s really interesting. Like, here was this church that believed that everyone was fundamentally equal on a divine level, like everybody had that of God within them, and more than just like that means queer people are okay, that means anyone can speak, you know, all people’s voices, and children’s voices especially are valid, and I think we struggle with listening to children’s voices in Irish society, and so it really attracted me in

Zack Jackson  

That core belief that there is a divine light in everyone is what anchors this entire community, it’s a theology that Alan Brady, a lawyer who recently became a Quaker, takes incredibly literally, so literally, in fact, that he got a tattoo of it on his arm in Irish.

Alan Brady  

So, what it says down here is “ ag freagairt loinnir Dé atá ionainn uilig” , so ag freagairt, answering. loinnir Dé, the light of God, a thought, and on all in all of us, that is, in all of us. Loinnir is a very kind of old-fashioned Irish, where the words you would use, like if you turned on the light, is solace, and so lunar is it’s like the light over the window when you come home from a journey, or the light of the sunrise doesn’t kind of a spiritually connecting light.

Zack Jackson  

As he showed me the stars that accented the piece, he explained that the elements that made our bodies were forged in the hearts of ancient stars, and so we are all of us made of stars of the lights. In the cosmos,

Alan Brady  

Because ultimately the problem with us and them from a Friends theological perspective is like there is no them, like there’s only us, we’re all made of stars, you know what I mean, the same spirit moves all of us, so we’re all the same, we’re all equally valid, we’re all, and it’s those dividing lines are kind of anathema to so much of what friends are all about

Zack Jackson  

Seeing that exact same light in everyone is a serious challenge in a divided land, but to understand how Irish Quakers pull this off, you have to understand the religious landscape of the island itself. While much of the Western world has rapidly secularized, Ireland remains a deeply spiritual place, as lifelong Quaker Felicity McCartney points out, religion here hasn’t faded away the way that it has for their neighbors.

Felicity McCartney  

Irish Quakers have a wide diversity, but it’s a different diversity to British Quakers, because Irish people are more spiritual. Our Celtic ancestors were more spiritual as well, and so we don’t encounter the sort of anti-religious thing. I mean, there’s anti-religion, but it’s more about anti structures rather than anti hearts, you know, so although we have, of course, some Quakers in Ireland who would count themselves as non-theists, so we do have a diversity, because some, some Quakers are more, in quotes, religious than others, and much more Christian based.

Zack Jackson  

Irish spirituality has long held this tension between faithfulness to the particular and openness to the other. Paul Mooney told me that long before modern ecumenism, the island’s spirituality was already a natural blend of traditions,

Paul Mooney  

And when they came, they met the Druids, and the Druids, and the bards, the singers, the filly, the poets, and the Bren, the judges had already been holding space with the sun and the land and the trees and the soil and the water and the animals for 10,000 years, so there’s a very natural and easy transition between the ancient Druidic roles into the monasteries

Zack Jackson  

That natural blend created a cultural DNA that is completely comfortable being both Jesus-centered and open to other expressions of spirituality. Today, Ireland Yearly Meeting is one united body holding both liberal and evangelical meetings under a single canopy. How do they manage that? While denominations across all religious traditions seem to be splitting over hot-button issues, and the world is becoming more polarized than ever. How can this small body of Friends lead us to a more united future? We find out after the break. 

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Zack Jackson  

On this show, we often talk about how everyone’s spiritual path is unique. And recently, I caught up with one of our supporters named Eva, who is no exception. Her path to Quakerism started on a bicycle in Eastern Maryland. 

Eva Paxton  

I was biking around the neighborhood, biked by the meetinghouse, and I thought, I don’t know anything about what friends, what that means,

Zack Jackson  

before she ever walked through the doors of that meetinghouse, Eva did what most modern seekers do research. She started reading, watching videos and listening to this podcast among others, and the more she dug in, the more things just started to click.

Eva Paxton  

As I kept reading everything really resonated with me. It was like, Oh, I’ve always been a Quaker. I just didn’t have a word for it.

Zack Jackson  

When Eva finally did attend a meeting, she saw a need and immediately stepped up, offering to start a first day school program for the kids so that other families like hers could also find a spiritual home.

Eva Paxton  

So now, two Sundays a month, I lead a first day school program there, so that so that we can all be there. And it’s been great. It was mostly older community, and everyone’s been very grateful for little ones coming in the door, although my meeting’s been really supportive and and trying to make sure I also get a chance to sit through a full meeting and not just lead first day school for

Zack Jackson  

Eva, that time in silent waiting worship is just absolutely vital,

Eva Paxton  

and there was just this sort of intangible quality that I couldn’t I couldn’t replicate at home by myself, even if I had, you know, even with the daily meditation practice, it didn’t feel the same as when I sat with a group.

Zack Jackson  

This podcast was an important part of her spiritual journey. But for a long time, she simply wasn’t in a place where she could support it financially. That recently changed for her, and she told me why she felt it was so important to step up and become a monthly supporter.

Eva Paxton  

Now, I was aware the whole time that the reason I’m able to access this great podcast for free is because other people are supporting so when I had it in my budget to do so, I set up a donation so that I could contribute every month

Zack Jackson  

for Eva. Supporting the show isn’t just about chipping in for a podcast that she enjoys. It’s about making sure the door stays open for the next person who’s looking for a spiritual home.

Eva Paxton  

The fact is that not everyone is going to be in a position where they’re able to contribute financially, and we want this platform available to them. Quakers have never been ones to evangelize and try to convert, right? It’s you go forth. You allow Your light to shine through how you live, and people are drawn to it. But obviously there are ways that we need to reach people in this day and age, and I just think that the podcast is really important for that.

Zack Jackson  

That’s why we make this podcast. We want this to be a free, accessible resource for the next person who bikes past a meetinghouse and wants to learn more, but like Eva said, we can only do that with the support of folks who are in a position to help. So if this show has been a meaningful part of your journey, please consider becoming a monthly supporter for as little as $5 a month. You can help keep this resource available to everyone, head on over to Quaker podcast.com and click Support. Thank you so very much. And now back to the show.

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Zack Jackson

Welcome back. Before the break, we were looking at the sheer theological diversity held within Ireland Yearly Meeting. To hold liberal meetings, evangelical meetings, and everything in between together under one canopy requires an immense amount of grace and understanding for lifelong Quaker Felicity McCartney, who grew up in a stricter meeting than she attends now, it comes down to a very specific posture.

Felicity McCartney  

I suppose I grew up not agreeing with a whole lot of stuff, but feeling it had a right to be there, you see.

Zack Jackson  

She told me that maintaining this unity means holding fast to your own foundation while keeping your hands open to everyone else’s.

Felicity McCartney  

I love the quote I heard at Woodbrooke, rooted in Christianity, open to new ideas, so that people are ready to learn from other sources, but you know, we have a Christian background. I wouldn’t want to get too hung up about it. I wouldn’t want to reject anybody.

Zack Jackson  

That grace, the willingness to coexist with completely different world views without demanding conformity, is what allows Freddie Higgins to find value in that tension.

Freddie Higgins  

I mean, Quakers are seekers, right? We look for the truth, and so I mean, I don’t think any human can say that they know the truth for sure. Why should I be clappering someone’s head with the Bible or with Quaker faith and practice, saying that I know the truth and they don’t? You know it, and I’m making it sound easy, and it isn’t always easy, but it’s worth it. I think you know it, like it can be a struggle to talk to a friend who has theological differences, especially when they are fundamental, but it’s, it’s worth it, I think, for a community that is more accepting on every level, a community that can be closer together and help each other more without prerequisites.

Zack Jackson  

When every other church around you is caught up in violent fragmentation, sticking together becomes a radical act of survival. Will Haire couldn’t help but look at the scars of his country to explain it.

Will Haire  

I wonder sometimes, is it because we’ve lived, we live in a society in Ireland, which shows you the dangers of division, and you know, dividing up on these things, the real damage means the scandal of what has happened in Ireland, and scandal of the Christian churches does not make an environment for a little society like ourselves, tiny that we are, that actually just encourage people to realize, actually in the greater scheme of things, we may disagree with our friends here, but let’s stick together, as opposed to, you know, fragment ourselves, you know, maybe that’s maybe that is, maybe it’s the environment of Ireland helps us as a yearly meeting to hold together, because we see in the great scheme of things are minor divisions, or our minor disciplines are fairly irrelevant, and maybe that’s a broader issue, generally for Quakers around the world. I mean, we are in a hell of a mess, and can we afford all these, you know, splits and factions and schisms, you know, when we actually do share quite a lot of things together. So, as soon as, suppose, of course, I turn around, say, well, shouldn’t all Quakers feel more of this requirement to stick together

Zack Jackson  

In a world that is fractured and hurting, can a spiritual community really afford to split over its differences? For Irish Quakers, the answer is a resounding no. But declaring unity is easy. Actually, practicing it is incredibly difficult. It requires an entirely different set of tools, and as 18 year old Freddie Higgins points out, these tools are built right into the way Quakers do business.

Freddie Higgins  

I love that we don’t vote. I love that you have to come to a consensus, so that there is no sort of dictatorship of the majority, you know. You, you have to come to a consensus. Everyone has to at least feel like this is fine, even if they’re not like this is amazing, and it teaches you to explain what you believe and explain why you want something to happen, and also when to, like, let go, when to not be a control freak, you know.

Zack Jackson  

Preventing a dictatorship of the majority isn’t just about trivial decisions or esoteric theological differences. When Ireland legalized same-sex marriage in 2015, religious bodies across the country immediately put out position statements, and nearly all of them were opposed to the referendum. Irish Quakers, however, took their time. Will Haire explained their process.

Will Haire  

 We’ve always had, I suppose, what we describe as weighty friends. Our friends from a different person who have you know, very committed themselves to keeping the connections across the yearly meeting. And when there’s issues, they’re the quiet people who kind of go and talk to people if there’s… We had an issue 20 years ago, complex issue around how we deal with same-sex marriage. And that was, uh, and for, I think probably eight years, we were stuck on finding the right formulation and the right process there. But there were people of weight on both sides of the argument who reached out and found a way through. 

But what we have done, our agreement on same-sex sex marriage, we agreed was, and it’s in our instruction, is basically, yes, we will recognize same-sex marriages. If anybody’s a registrar and they do not believe in it, they do not have to fulfill the role. We always have enough registrars, so other people can do it, and each meeting can decide whether it will recognize a same-sex marriage. Now, I think the great majority of meetings will very happily do that, and several, I mean, many meetings have but that was that compromise was very happily accepted by everybody and is respected by both sides

Zack Jackson  

They didn’t solve the theological debate. Instead, they solved the human one. They built a canopy large enough to cover everyone’s conscience, allowing the liberal meetings to joyfully celebrate same-sex marriages, while giving the opportunity for some of the more conservative meetings not to violate their own convictions. It’s a radical kind of grace, and as Freddie looks towards the future, they believe it’s exactly what the rest of us are starving for.

Freddie Higgins  

The idea that every single human being has that a lot of them is an eternal thing and an important thing. You know, there is so much war and so much hatred and so much disconnection and so much disconnection from the earth.

And I think Quakers have something to offer to all of that, you know, getting off your phone and getting kind of out of your own head, put into your own soul, and also getting to experience other people like Quaker community. To me, at least, is very strong. It’s when people talk about the kind of struggles of community as a young person, I think we have a lot to learn from Quakers, like friendship across age ranges, friendship across geographical locations, the willingness to help, even when you don’t know someone that well, just the lack of hierarchy. We have a lot to offer the world in that. I think there are a lot of people who, if they knew more about Quakers, might be more interested.

Zack Jackson  

When I first stepped off the plane in Dublin, I was an outsider. But within hours, I felt like family. I learned later from my hosts that this ancient law of hospitality has been nurtured into the soil for ten thousand years.

But hospitality is more than just pouring a cup of tea for a stranger. True hospitality is staying in the room with someone you completely disagree with. It’s looking across the aisle, or across the silence of a meeting house, and deciding that the light of God in your neighbor is far more important than the lines that divide you.

As Freddie told me. It’s not easy. But it’s worth it.

Zack Jackson
Thank you so much for walking alongside us on this journey. A profound thank you to our friends across the ocean Will Haire, Freddie Higgins, Alan Brady, Felicity McCartney, and Paul Mooney —for opening your doors and sharing your profound wisdom with us. 

If you’re looking to bring some of these reflections into your own community, you can find the discussion questions for this episode, along with a full transcript and additional resources, at Quakerpodcast.com.

This episode was hosted, edited and produced by Zack Jackson, with help from Jon Watts who also wrote and produced the music. 

Thee Quaker Podcast is a part of Thee Quaker Project. We are a nonprofit Quaker media organization deeply dedicated to giving Quakers a platform in the 21st Century. Whether we are capturing stories in Dublin, Belfast, or in our own back yard, we believe these quiet messages of peace and radical welcome are exactly what our fractured world needs. If you feel moved by the work we’re doing and want to help us share more of this light, please consider becoming a monthly supporter. Just go to Quakerpodcast.com and click ‘Support’ in the top right corner. It takes less than five minutes, and your partnership means the world to us.

And now, to carry us out, our Daily Quaker Message, read by Irish Friend Rose Tobin.

Rose Tobin
Carolyn Treadway. 2006. Slowing down frees time and space for spiritual connection and reverence for life. We must act on what our deep hearts already know: All life is sacred. Everything is connected. From this space, we can create a world we are proud to leave to our children and all future generations. Reverence for life empowers us to take responsibility for, and to care for, ourselves and each other

Zack Jackson
To get Quaker wisdom in your inbox every day, just go to dailyquaker.com that’s dailyquaker.com.

Hosted, produced, and edited by Zack Jackson.

Original music and sound design by Jon Watts (Listen to more of Jon’s music here.)

This season’s cover art is by Todd Drake

Supported by listeners like you (thank you!!)